YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE...MAYBE TWICE!
I usually don't post like this but in this case I thought I would make an exception. The discussion started one place and then ended another but it was all very interesting and valid points of view and I wanted to share them all.
Do you think it will be any different when the mutilated flesh is attacking you?
A friend responded,"No I think it will be easier cos your mind will be on self preservation rather than rubber necking to see wounds
I do think it will be seeing mutilated children or even babies will screw even the toughest of us
But we all have mental switches ,it's just a case of turning them on and of to cope with what life throws at you , I had to assist when my mother was dying of cancer ,I gave her the final dose of morphine , so let's say I know where my switches are and how to use them."
I responded," those are very good points but wont it depend on the person? And what would you do if someone you knew didn't react so well? They could stop you from getting out so easily or even get you killed. What if its someone you love? They arn't dead but they are freaking?"
He said this back, "Caveman time come Zday the weak of body or mind will not last no matter what you do physical and mental toughness is something that is either there or not it cannot be taught from others it is dependant on an individual's will to live and to do what needs to be done. Even a moments hesitation means the difference between life and death , you cannot think you must purely do what needs to be done no matter the bad taste it can leave in your mouth.
This is when we got in the descussion of humanity... and it got really interesting. I said...
Some would argue that if we lose our humanity on the process of trying to stay alive then that would make us like them. If we do not protect those weak who cannot protect themselves then don't we in some way ( no matter how small ) become the unfeeling monsters that we are trying to kill?
Friend - Yes , welcome to the reality of it if we are to win allot of our basic humanity we spent 2000 years building will and must disappear for us to win they don't care they don't stop they don't sleep they do not feel And if we get caught up in feelings and emotions we will all die It's an unpopular point of view but the only one with the skills to survive in WD is Shane And that's what it will be , not living ,just survival
There wil be people who it will be an advantage to save and protect but the idea of protecting the weak for the hell of it is not a good idea at all
Me - Well if that was true then all the others would be dead though... many of the others are alive and have survived by themselves for a time. Besides that seams so easy to say rather then do sweetie... What if the weak you speak of is your own child? 1 years old and not much use to anyone in the situation but they are your child. Its different then. But if you look at it that way then what makes your child's life worth more then someones mother or father or brother... Its not that... I wouldn't put it in the way of we would lose or even have to lose our humanity but we would have to make some harder choices. Some being sacrificing some for others but if we sacrifice our humanity in the end then we might as well die along with them.... Because say you make it threw and the zombies are gone. Do you really think you could just pick up, flip the lights back on and go back to business as usual. Would you even be human anymore or able to recognize others as human? I see your point sweetie but I think to really make it threw we have to find a way to protect our humanity along the way some how. We wouldnt be able to all the time but when we can we should try.
Rob Chimmed in - we must realize that our human emotions are just that, emotions, meant for us to control and not the other way around. I'm commonly referred to as a cold bastard for my views on this subject, but humanity must learn to control and even turn off our emotions, even if it means losing some of our humanity. If it makes us metaphorical monsters, so be it, better than flesh eating monsters.
Then one of our writers Jesse added - For someone who has shot and killed someone, I can tell you you have no idea what you are capable of in times of diress and great stress. especially when it comes down to you or them, they no longed are your loved ones, they are a threat to your breathing and remaining among the living. So when faced with the circumstances, you will do what you have to do to survive.
Friend - That's what I'm saying about caveman logic they still loved and cared for eachother but it was a more basic form of it without the web of crap we now weave around it , I myself would walk into a horde with a suicide jacket if it got my wife and kids another day of life. Most of these decisions will be instinct rather than pre thought out sacrifices. And after it's done it will take generations to rebuild ourselves into decent human beings again ,and that's why I'd do anything that needed doing cus I have faith that humanity would one day find a way back , it will take a long time but we would get it back.
Me - Im not arguing that we dont do what we have to when we have to but if we lose our humanity then I believe Kashwek said it best... We would just be surviving and not living... Arn't you asking yourself if you surivive will you truly come out the other end alive? Or will you just simply be there? And if that is the case then is it even worth it at all?
Jesse - wouldn't you rather be there with us to debate this rather than being undead, or worse, a headshot victim? personally id rather find myself without a shred of humanity on the other side than be dead and not able to have the luxury.
Rob - we must have the control over our emotions to be able to dehumanitize ourselves while also retaining our humanity, some wont be able too, but those who can will inherite the earth.
Friend - I think we're gonna become like hunted animals ,twitchy paranoid and emotionally detached from it all ,and there is no point that any of it's gonna be nice ,pleasant or fun ,not one damn day it's gonna be pain and suffering till the day we win and to think otherwise is foolish.
Jesse - I disagree, I think its going to be different in every city and town, in every state and country, and on islands it is more likely to be utopia and paradise.
Me - there are things worse then death sweetie... Much worse then death... Having to live with the death of my child... Seeing his cold dead body or not seeing him at all... or having to kill them or anything ling like that... every second of every day... there are things much worse then death... so the answer to that question is no sweetie... if it came to some things i wouldnt want to be there debating you because i wouldnt be... I have said this before ( regardless of how weak this makes me look to some, it is the truth ) If my son was gone then I'm gone to...
Jesse - I think even in compounds around the country there will be some semblance of peace.
Friend - I live in a city of 10 million I'm not expecting allot of paradise.
Rob - yes, once the safe havens are established, we can rebuild our humanity, once we have some semblance of comfort, but to get there, we are gonna havta tap into some of our more primal instincts and dehumanitize ourselves, like charlott said, the death of a loved one is the worse situation, but if we can use it to galvanize our emotions, then atleast there death meant something, as opposed to another statistic.
Me - Thats exactly what I am saying Rob Barnes... Not arguing that we wouldn't make some hard decisions and not even that i would have to and could do some pretty awful things. i have made those decisions before but there are some things you shouldn't do... some parts that you shouldn't live without... Couldn't really... and still be alive. Humanity isn't something that you can just flick a switch and get back and for some they just can't once they have lost it... look at our prisons for that example... Its something to be toiled over when thinking of doing things... Its something you shouldn't give up lightly. Not even a lil piece of it. As little as you have to and only when you have to.
Rob - definatly, it will take time and effort ot regain our humanity, but when the shit hits the fan, "humanity" will be a weakness, one that will be exploited by the adversity we face, thats why we need to start desensitizing ourselves now, so its not such a shock then, worry about rebuilding later. or mabye learning to control our emotions and humanity is the next evolution OF said humanity? Your cruising down the highway doin round 60 and a dog runs right in frount of you, what do you do?
Me - your question will show what I mean. I would stop if I had the time and if I was reasonably sure that I could do so with out serious injury to me or anyone else. If I wasn't sure then I would run over the dog. However Replace child with dog and put no one in the car other then me and my answer changes drastically... I would stop, run into a ditch or do whatever I had to to not hit that child. Its the little details of the situations that will matter. Its a thin line... In the ZA that's going to be one we are going to have to try extra hard not to find ourselves not to fare past the other side of.
This was a smaller conversation me and Rob had but I thought it was good so thought I would throw it in there to.
I have had the unique experience of experiencing that threw my own body. A lot of it anyways. Was even the only person I knew growing up who got to touch my own skull, but sometimes I wonder if its gonna be different when the mutilated flesh wont be mine but rather someone I love. At least if its you then you have the pain to distract you... But you gotta think that the other way will bring some raw emotions to the surface.
My friend Rob in our group said," After being exposed to it you tend to become desensitized to it. " I asked him," but what about the ones who have never been exposed before? How would you help them to get ready?" He gave a good response.
start desensitizing yourselves now, slowly expose yourselves to more and more gruesome stuff, stop on the side of the road and poke the animal carcass with a stick, the movies i mentioned earlier are pretty gruesome, real filmed deaths from around the world, from a man who sticks a gun in his mouth and the blood flows like a waterhose, to people ran over by trains, many movies, many deaths.
Supernatural - O Death
i feel what a person can or cant do is kinda a moot point because different people react in different ways. but i have always felt that when it comes down to it. its our ability to feel that differs us from the animals and soon the undead. its kinda like a question i asked a long while back that didnt get many responses to but to me is a good question. you can find it in the KOMRADZ and NEXUS groups called "POST WAR PLANS". it asks basically what a person would do after all is said and done and some sense of normality is established. reason i asked it was pretty much similar to what was being debated here with your friends. "Can we go back to normal and preserve our humanity after making the dead dead again?" i have always felt that it is the human factor that will be the one thing that keeps us from being the monsters we will be forced to fight in the near future. and i also feel that if we "turn it off" or "lose it" in any way (the human factor) that we as a species will be no better then the undead we will soon face and there will be no going back when that happens. and as a result will be doomed before it even begins. and if this happens (losing the human factor) after all we been through throughout the centuries. then we will have not learned a thing from any of it. and if we dont learn now. then all can be and will be lost in the end. just my humble point of view.
That's what I think to... I will go look for that question right after I reply sweetie. I agree with what you are saying babe... Except the part of it saying if we lose it then we can't get it back. My human factor always holds out hope. Though I have been called nieve before. I think its very important. I think we should do the best we can to show humanity whenever and wherever we can while at the same time being able to make those hard decisions when we need to.You make some very good points :) And I have always loved your input ;)
I suppose there is no way to truely know how each of us, and individuals/society will react to something of that magnitude. It's true I've never seen combat or witnessed any kind of death/mutilation on a large scale...and when I'm honest with myself about it, yea Ill admit, I'd have a hard time at first. The sheer site of the carnage will more than likely turn my stomach, and my level of sympathy for the dead (undead) will overtake me...however, I've adjusted to alot of shit in my life, and I've always pushed through when the entire deck was stacked against me...I've adjusted, I've hustled, I've manned the fuck up, and I've got used to living a life where all I see is negatives and yet I still perservere...
I think thats a very honest and well thought out answer :) Thank you for that!
what ya want us ta say?
killing is not a big thing in my book.
hell, we have been snuffing each other from way back, back to when we were apes with sticks.
i'm sure we will continue along this line untill the very end.
but i'll tell ya right now: i have no problem with killing someone that treathens my family/friends.
after all ya can take the face paint of the wicked clown, but ya can't take the wicked out of the clown.
Yes we have been doing that but also with that we have been going crazy because we took such actions. Some of the most well known figures in history have gone completely mad because they took a life or had an extreme trauma like that happen. I speak to the affect that it ill have on us to see that or do it. Not to whether we could. Much like you I am very scary protective of my friends and family... and god help the person who tries to harm my child... I would do much worse things then death to that person... but we need to deal with the reality that the effects are there. No ego.... no nothing... its going to affect you. and it should. but how do we make it affect us in the right way and not in the bad one?
I don't think for a second that your soul left. Your soul is like your heart babe. I know for sure you have plenty of that. Especially sense you help your mother like that. That takes a lot of love and strength.
Anytime sweetie! Just come to me the next to you need a reminder of how awesome you are! LOL And we are all damaged babe... We fix what we can and then put the rest off on eccentricities! LOL
well thats a good way and an honest way to look at things. I'm not saying for one min that we can't over come it... I think we can. i know we can. I came up with this topic and had one of my writers write this up because its my job to help find ways to help us all do it better. To adjust faster. To know what has to be done and get it done in the most officiant way possible. I look at these kinds of things as I see all my years of self defense training. I have done that for so long that when I actually have to put it into practice its like a switch goes on in my head where its not only natural reflex to defend myself but to run threw all the possible things in my head that could happen next and being ready for them in a split second. I think in the regards of this kind of thing that is the training we need... But its more of the pose of the question of how to train for that.
Would there ever be a "other end" or a new beginning